Threads of Life State of Safety in Canada Survey 2025 - Eugene Gutierrez, Executive Director

Eugene discusses the findings of the 2025 State of Safety in Canada Survey, a national survey conducted by Threads of Life from February 27th to March 9th, 2025, among a representative sample of 1059 online Canadians who are members of the Angus Reid Forum.

Transcript

Perley Brewer   0:16
Welcome.
Welcome to today's podcast. My name is Pearly Brewer and I will be your host today's guest on our podcast is is someone we've had on before. Eugene and Gutierrez, who's the CEO for the Threads of life. Welcome, Eugene.

Eugene  Gutierrez   0:33
Thank you. Thank you for having me. Good morning.

Perley Brewer   0:35
So the last time we talked, you were new to the position and you gave us a a nice little update on on where you expected to that you would like to go as far as threads of life. Today, we're here to talk about another aspect of threads of life and that is what's called the state of safety survey.
Would you bring folks up to date on what that is and how it came about?

Eugene  Gutierrez   0:58
Yeah, certainly. Well, firstly, I do appreciate the question and and you know the opportunity to speak about the survey as it you know it touches on an important area for us. So the state of safety survey is what we call a perception survey. So it's really designed to take the pulse of health and safety from the.
Viewpoint of people who are making the decisions. So we're talking business owners, hiring managers, workplace leaders. It's really asking them about what they believe is in place when it comes to safety and what challenges they're seeing and how they think things are going as far as conducting the survey we commissioned.
Read tapping into their long standing expertise as it pertains to getting quality data from from Canadians across the country, and the latest round was completed just earlier this year in February and March. Now all that to say for us at threads of life, our role with this survey.
And frankly, why we did this in the 1st place it it isn't about necessarily coming up with the solutions, we're not the technical experts. You know we leave the solutioning to our partners, partners like safety services, New Brunswick for example. What we are trying to do is spark a national conversation about workplace safety and what's still needed.
And for the impacted families and workers in our community and membership. So those who've been affected by workplace fatalities, life altering injuries, occupational illnesses, this is about preventing other people from facing that same heartbreak. And, you know, we want to build a culture where tragedies at work are simply.
Acceptable. And so this survey, we look at this as a vehicle in support towards that.

Perley Brewer   2:40
So you completed the survey. What are some of your observations about the results?

Eugene  Gutierrez   2:46
So overall, you know, we'd say we're cautiously cautiously optimistic. You know there's some good news in the results this year. Attitudes around health and safety are improving. So that's a good thing. And fewer challenges are being reported across the board.
But if I were to create a big headline around this, is that there's still a long way to go. You know, even though we've seen progress about four in 10 workplaces are still saying they face challenges around things like time for training.
Or being understaffed and that's a significant chunk of the workforce and and from our lens that's that's worrying for us.

Perley Brewer   3:30
So what are some of the biggest concerns you have in the results that you saw? You mentioned a couple of them a moment ago.

Eugene  Gutierrez   3:36
Yeah. Well, we were definitely encouraged to see some improvements. As I mentioned, you know, especially compared to last year. But yeah, so there are, there are a few things that stand as red flags. So for example, the top issue reported was lack of time for training, so.
Now that said, that number has come down from 49% last year to 42% this year. So that's a step in the right direction. However, 42% that's still way too high and that's nearly half of workplaces saying that they struggle to make time for safety training.
The next major concern was understaffing, which is at 40%. So, so there's that confusing rules and regulations that's at 31% the cost of training is at 29 percent. Those numbers have all improved slightly from last year, but again, there's there's still.
Are too high. We're talking about thousands of workplaces across Canada facing barriers that could directly affect people's well-being on the job. What's even more concerning is that we're seeing tough, challenging economic conditions right now. You you see it all over the news.
Especially as it pertains to, you know, tariffs and the political climate that we find ourselves in. And so that's having a domino effect and we're seeing it in the way in forms of, like layoffs, budget restrictions when it comes to various companies in, in various industries. And that raises the risk that.
Perhaps safety efforts could backslide.

Perley Brewer   5:12
So what did you discover relative to business size?

Eugene  Gutierrez   5:16
So with respect to business size, we found that.
In general, the larger the business, the more likely they are have that they are to have specific safety programs, which makes sense. You know, you think about a larger organization, they're likely going to have more resources. They often have more legal requirements.

Perley Brewer   5:38
The.

Eugene  Gutierrez   5:38
But that leaves smaller workplaces at risk by comparison. So let's take training as an example. Across all workplaces, we found that 72% said they have safety training in place, but among the smallest businesses.
So think of you know, those with fewer than 10 employees, only 53% said they offer it. That's a huge gap and we know how many small businesses there are across Canada. And so if half of them aren't providing training.
That's thousands of workers without the basic tools to stay safe. Some of those small businesses also reported that they rarely think about health and safety, or that the rules seem like a cost without much benefit. So that tells us that.
You know, there is a real need for support here, whether that's education, whether that's funding or more accessible resources. So with respect to size, that's through the survey. That's what we're finding between, you know, larger, larger organizations and businesses versus small.

Perley Brewer   6:45
What about industry sectors? Were you able to gather any information on the different industries and and what might be taking place in each of them?

Eugene  Gutierrez   6:45
Yeah.
Yeah. So you know with respect to industries, you know, so sectors with more hands on risk. So what do I mean by that? So examples like energy, Agri business, construction trades, manufacturing.
Those hands on risk sectors tend to have more safety protocols in place, which makes sense. These are often also unionized sectors, and they're heavily regulated, so one could pause it. You know, there's more infrastructure to support safety.
On the flip side, we see lower safety engagement in fields like creative industries advertising, some professional services. So all that to say and and you know from a threads of life lens and we want to be clear, every workplace has hazards.
Even if they're not physical, so every worker from our viewpoint deserves training and protection, no matter the sector. But you know, as far as a high level, that's that's what we've seen through the results.

Perley Brewer   8:01
Were you able to get any indication as to the status in New Brunswick? A lot better listeners at course are from New Brunswick.

Eugene  Gutierrez   8:06
With.
Of course I don't know, and I appreciate the question. So you know, we don't have necessarily a province by province breakdown, but we do have regional data. And so for Atlantic Canada and that includes New Brunswick, it's largely in line with the national averages from what we found. So while there may be some variation locally, the overall picture in the region mirrors what?
We're seeing across the country with respect to the results in our survey.

Perley Brewer   8:32
Now you also did an addition to your survey this year. You asked some questions about mental health.

Eugene  Gutierrez   8:41
Yeah. So you know for from a mental health perspective because you know we we we felt that we needed to include it in this second annual survey for for multitude of reasons. I mean number one we know that it's a growing concern in workplaces across Canada.
That's that's number one. And #2, we know that it plays a role in both causing and compounding other risks. You know, mental health challenges can absolutely be a tragedy on their own. You know, when someone is struggling mentally, they're often more vulnerable to physical injuries. You know, they're not in.
Frame of mind could be distracted by other things you know. We also know that the reverse is also true, that a traumatic incident at work can lead to long term mental health impacts. So we find and even just hearing stories from our own family members that it's all connected. And so we felt that.
That it was important to include it to to get a better understanding of how companies and entities are are approaching that.

Perley Brewer   9:47
Now excuse me. Have you been able to get your survey out to many of the jurisdictions, especially the legislators in the different jurisdictions?

Eugene  Gutierrez   9:57
So with respect to the survey I, I mean we we make it available, you know we're trying to push it through our partners to to to get it in the right hands. You know, we're we're relying on partners such as yourselves and in hopes to raise more awareness about the survey and so.
You know, certainly with our ministry partners, people in the health and safety sector, we are you know we we are trying to push out the survey as best as we can. You know there's always going to be instances where we'll miss some folks. So you know hopefully through you know this podcast as an example that folks who are listening that you know they'll certainly.
We have a better awareness that we do have such a survey and that they'll request it or for that matter, you know, certainly asking through our partners and we can have, you know, happily happy to distribute in that fashion.

Perley Brewer   10:48
Have you had any feedback from any other your partners as to once they've received a copy and have gone through it?

Eugene  Gutierrez   10:55
So we've had like we've had a few people reach out asking for the survey and I think for them when they receive a copy of the results that they look at it as an opportunity to help.
Reinforce some of the messaging that they're putting out there so you know when it comes to things like the the results around training the results around mental health that these are just additional layers that they can help.
Reinforce with their own safety themes and within their organizations, all that to say. You know, we're hoping we're hoping to receive more feedback, you know, with respect to the survey, you know, we had put it out.
Just in the last couple months. And so it's still kind of early days for us, but you know, I'm really hoping that again, even being able to be on this podcast to speak about it, that it's an invitation for people to, you know, look at it, read, read deeply into it, ask those questions, give us feedback as far as you know.
Are there other questions that we should be asking? Should we be probing some of these themes deeper? So but all that to say, yeah, always open to more feedback over at threads of life as it pertains to the survey.

Perley Brewer   12:15
I remember. Yeah, last year, looking at your first survey and thinking it's excellent from a point of view that it's not something that really has been in place across Canada from a point of view of getting a snapshot of where health and safety's AT. And and I remember thinking at the time it's it's going to be a great benchmark.
That you can add to year after year to get a really good idea of whether or not things are changing a lot of time, health and safety. People focus on the immediate, the tasks they're doing, but sometimes you don't have the correct measurement to see whether or not it's really making a difference, especially at a high level.
I went through your statistics and your results after I received a copy of your survey and I would certainly encourage all the listeners today do our survey or to our podcast, rather to reach out to you. You mentioned that to reach out via the The your website.
To get a copy of the survey, it's one of those things real. You have to sit down and go through to really understand what you're seeing and what the survey is showing. For example, when I went through it and I spent some time going through it, when I look at the.
First item which is the we do what is required to comply with the rules and regulations and that's one of your items identified in the positive use of safety and 93% of the respondents.
Say they do what's required to comply with the rules and the regulations, and that's obviously very positive and and you know, I looked at that and I saw wow, that's that's fantastic. But you start to dig deeper and you find out that perception perhaps is a little different from reality.
Because when you dig deeper it for example a good health and safety record helps us hire and retain better employees. 32% said no. So there's some work to be done there, a good health and safety program helps us hire and retain better employees. 35% said no.
Our business puts health and safety ahead of everything else, 35% said no. So as you said earlier, there's there's a number of things that are not in place that really when you look the flip side of it, yes, there's progress being made, but there's, there's still obviously work to be done.
Some other additional information that come out of your survey that I think is really important to mention. 17% of the respondents said they do no orientation, 27% said they have no illness and injury reporting.
28% said they do no safety training. Now again you mentioned and you were right to dig into lack of resources. Lack of time. Certainly they're reaching into that. 32% said they have no emergency procedures.
32% say do no onboarding, 35% said they do no potential hazardous training and again 39% said they do nothing in mental health. 55% they have no health and safety meetings. So.
There's there's progress being made, but there's still some gaps that when you start to dig into the actual obviously at if 93% of the people say yes, we're doing what's required, but the results don't show that and obviously there there needs to be a lot more work done to help educate workplaces.

Eugene  Gutierrez   15:26
Absolutely.

Perley Brewer   15:41
On what they do need to be doing to meet the requirements of the legislation and then obviously and then obviously there needs to be time spent to to reinforce that within the organization. So that in fact they are doing it some other very interesting you know we talked so much about safety culture.

Eugene  Gutierrez   15:46
100%.

Perley Brewer   15:59
And and you have some really good statistics when it comes to safety culture. Just to go through three or four of them, the risk of an accident or injury is so rare that no one ever thinks of it 48%.
And I know certainly that's that's part of what we try to do in our podcast is is to increase awareness. I know that's a big part of your organization. But really when you stop and look at it, that's half of their population.

Eugene  Gutierrez   16:26
That's right.

Perley Brewer   16:27
When the people working really don't think about, oh, an accident could happen, and if they're never thinking about it, they're probably not taking steps to make sure that doesn't happen in our kind of business. Health and safety is not something we ever think about 34%.

Eugene  Gutierrez   16:37
Right.

Perley Brewer   16:44
You know, we we try continually to make sure that it's top of mind, but there's still obviously a lot of work to be done. Health and safety rules and regulations are a cost without much payback, 26% and and that's when I know you mentioned and that's when you you mentioned I know last year and.
Yes, it's an improvement from 34%, but it's that's still pretty high. We've learned about the importance of health and safety the hard way 25% and I guess all of us would like to say that we're learning about anything the hard way is is not really the way we want to go.

Eugene  Gutierrez   17:07
That's right.
No, and it's certainly not acceptable.

Perley Brewer   17:21
And no, and a certain number of accident injuries are the cost of doing business. Again, that's down from 23% to 18%. So that that is a gain that's that's important to mention. But if there's obviously when we look at it, there's there's a perception there that maybe companies think they're doing better.

Eugene  Gutierrez   17:32
Mm-hmm.

Perley Brewer   17:40
And they actually are, which is a message to all of us that working in health and safety that as you mentioned earlier in the broadcast, we have to keep working hard to educate, to train, to ensure that organizations really do better understand.
What they should be doing?

Eugene  Gutierrez   17:59
That's right, the and you know I I do want to reinforce the fact that, you know, as I mentioned previously, this is our second annual edition of this survey. Just like with any survey, there needs to be an understanding that, you know, we need to run this.

Perley Brewer   18:08
Yeah.

Eugene  Gutierrez   18:15
A number of times to really understand what those trends look like, right? So I mean you know second, second time running it, yes. Are we seeing some positive trends? Absolutely. But as you kind of mentioned pearly, you know and and this is where it comes down to.

Perley Brewer   18:16
Yeah.

Eugene  Gutierrez   18:34
How these surveys are constructed, and again, that's why we went with Angus Reed. They're they're very reputable when it comes to being able to run these types of surveys that, as one can appreciate, you know, you ask you ask a certain type of question.
It will be understood a certain way they'll they'll answer it. You know, in in a certain fashion, but you will construct the question in different ways in hopes of to to what you've identified to to get a little bit deeper. Right, because perhaps maybe they're thinking a certain certain way in one question. But then as you ask certain.
Ones not to say that you know they're not answering the question truthfully or anything like that, but it's it's, it's really about getting them to truly think about what they're answering and and in hopes of uncovering certain insights that will help all of us collectively to understand, OK, what work.
Needs to be done further as it pertains to keeping people safe at work. But you know as much as you know there's some lower percentages as it relates to some of the safety challenges. I mean that that's still a number that's still a percentage that's still people that that are at risk.
And so we're certainly hoping that, you know, organizations, companies, our partners, partners like yourselves, will will you will look at this data, apply it where necessary, but as well like we invite everyone help help us out with this, right. If there's other questions, if there's other themes.
That need to be explored. The hope is that you know we will continue to build on this survey and and frankly it only gets better with more participation, with more application, with more feedback that you know we can, we can sharpen, sharpen the lens on identifying.
The work that that still needs to be done.

Perley Brewer   20:22
My background in health and safety started. I worked for the regulator here in New Brunswick for 22 years and I guess I was, you know, could say in doctrine, in, in their viewpoint of what they wanted to see when it comes to health and safety in the workplace.
And again, that was a good viewpoint to sort of form a basis. After I retired, I went to work for safety services and I started going out and doing training and and during my training courses, I would ask a lot of questions to try and get a sense of of what do workplaces know.

Eugene  Gutierrez   20:46
Mm-hmm.

Perley Brewer   20:57
What? What are they actually doing at the workplace? Yes, I can go in and I can talk about orientation programs and and I can talk about hazard identification and training, emergency procedures and so on. But what are they actually doing and what I discovered over the the 10 year period and really it's reinforced by your survey.
Is there's a gap that that is really I think all the legislators across Canada and and all the organizations working in health and safety need need to keep focusing on and and and make sure that they understand that.

Eugene  Gutierrez   21:19
Mm-hmm.

Perley Brewer   21:33
There's there's a perception out there that it may not be the reality and that we need to continue to do more work to try and and close some of these gaps that you've identified. I think very well in your survey. You know when when you look at the different topics that Angus Reid did did include.

Eugene  Gutierrez   21:47
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

Perley Brewer   21:50
I think there's some really good topics here that they dug down in deep to get a sense of, you know what? What is the company actually doing? So I think that's very, very helpful.

Eugene  Gutierrez   21:54
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
Yeah, you know the when we look at the themes and the questions in this survey and and and for all the things that you mentioned Pearly, you know our hope. You know I I think I mentioned earlier is that the hope of this survey is to encourage conversation.

Perley Brewer   22:16
Mm-hmm.

Eugene  Gutierrez   22:16
And I think that's the key part, especially when you boil it down. You know, when you're when you're looking at the workplace specifically whether you know from, from employer to employee that you know and you also highlight a a a key, a key theme about you know is.
His perception matching up with reality. Well, in order to really ensure that there's alignment, you, you, you have to keep fostering that conversation. You really you got to keep that dialogue going. Because I think when that dialogue stops that that's dangerous that's that's when things start to fall sideways and you know even when I used to be in.
And you know, when I was a summer student, I I I worked at the same mine that my dad worked at as a summer student. And, you know, for those who are, you know, to to phrase it as those who worked on the proverbial frontline, who know who know, like, they know the work day in, day out.
You know, I remember hearing chatter from other workers. It's like, does, does management even really know what we're doing on the front line? Do they even know all the stuff that we're trying to do to get the job done? And, you know, some of those conversations that I I've been Privy to in the past, that, that there are gaps, there are disconnects.
So when I talk about encouraging that dialogue that really closing the gap between employer and employee to make sure that they're working lockstep, because I think in, in, in addition to doing that, the other thing that needs to also change.
Yeah.
And I think this, I'm sure this has been covered many times in in some of your podcast interviews and and just other areas in our industry is it's it's a cultural mindset as it pertains to safety and this is not to diminish the value of you know important regulations, processes, protocols, you know the using proper PPE.

Perley Brewer   23:56
Mm-hmm.

Eugene  Gutierrez   24:06
All that type of stuff, those are all important. Make no mistake about it. But that's only as good as if you've adopted that mindset, that cultural mindset of what it means to be safe. And it's not just being safe at work. I mean, that's just.
Being safe in general 360°, going, going to work, coming home, going back again and so.
I hear that from from so many folks, including employers where you know, there are employers who are trying to do their due diligence to keep their workers safe. And yet I think sometimes that cultural mindset is a challenge whereas you know, some of these workers, perhaps, maybe because of previous experiences in the past, well, you know, maybe they just don't.
Who care? So I'll just keep doing what I'm doing, and then you have folks that come in, perhaps who wanted to kind of undo the past and make a big difference. And now they're trying to overcome that obstacle of perhaps, maybe how things were done in years in years prior and so that that cultural mindset, I I believe.
And and that's something we try to do at threads of life is how do we encourage that cultural mindset to to make workplace tragedies in whatever form, unacceptable. Because at the end of the day, and and I and I say this to other folks in our industry.
To really simplify it in some cases it's, it's about we're looking out for one another. I'm looking out for you. I want to take care of you. Right. That safety at its simplest form is we're taking care of each other. So how do we how do we get that mindset across?

Perley Brewer   25:40
An interesting area to explore perhaps in your next survey would be that of culture to try and even drill down a bit to get a sense of of what people's feelings are relative to the safety culture within their organization.

Eugene  Gutierrez   25:46
Hmm.
Right.
Yeah. What are what are their thoughts towards how safety is being approached within their own workplace? Are are people just are, is, are they hopeful? Are they cynical, are they? Are they checked out? Right. I I think that that's a really great.

Perley Brewer   26:02
Yeah.
Yeah.

Eugene  Gutierrez   26:13
Line of investigation just to find out what what is the sentiment from the the the workforce.

Perley Brewer   26:23
The other response you gave a moment ago that I guess I really like is that you when you mentioned and I I previously to that had mentioned gaps and I know there's a gap between what the regulators want and what is actually enforced in the workplace.

Eugene  Gutierrez   26:33
Mm-hmm.

Perley Brewer   26:39
But you mentioned another gap that I think it's equally important and that's within the workplace and that is, you know, as you said between the top management and the employees. And those again would be two other areas that would be certainly interesting to explore about what can be done to better close those gaps.

Eugene  Gutierrez   26:43
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Right.

Perley Brewer   27:00
Obviously resources is an issue, but are there other things that can be done to close the gaps to make health and safety easier within the workplace to ensure that it actually gets accomplished when now? Perhaps it it doesn't.

Eugene  Gutierrez   27:02
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Right. Yeah. I mean, with respect to the gaps, things that would be interesting to to find out. So I mentioned, you know, trying to encourage the conversation between employer, employee well, what things are in place that support that right? I mean, safety meetings aside, is there are there vehicles for providing that feedback?

Perley Brewer   27:33
Mm-hmm.

Eugene  Gutierrez   27:38
Back, are there internal reports to say hey, thank you for that feedback. Here's what we're doing with it. Right, is there that level of transparency that's happening in the workplace, right? Or for that matter, you know, anecdotally, this is just my personal experience when I talk to, you know, friends of mine in, in various workforces that.
You know, sometimes the stories I hear is, oh, you know, we provide the feedback and then it just it kind of disappears in the ether and then we're left wondering.
There's anything being done with it and you, you can only do that so many times where you you provide feedback, you provide feedback, you provide feedback. But after a while, when you don't see anything being done with it, then apathy starts to set in.
And then all of a sudden, people are like, you know what? Forget it. And then that's where the that's where the silence kicks in. And that's where I think I previously mentioned. It's when the conversation starts to stop.
That that, that can yield some really dangerous results. And so yeah, I think to your point, Pearly, to understand, you know, what are, what are those mechanisms within the workplace do do they exist, do they not? And and perhaps if they don't exist.
What what should be put in place? What what are the thoughts of, you know, the workers as far as what would be meaningful to them? I mean survey is one thing inside their own workplace or a meeting, but could there be other forms?

Perley Brewer   29:07
Well, look, Eugene, I guess to finish off the podcast, I'd like to get you to again answer the question if someone would like a copy of your survey, what's the easiest way for them to get a copy?

Eugene  Gutierrez   29:19
Yeah, certainly. So if anyone who's listening would like a copy of the state of safety survey, they can certainly visit ourwebsite@threadsoflife.ca and go to the contact US section. And you can put in in the message field that hi would would love to receive a copy of the state of safety survey.
And we can certainly e-mail a copy in that fashion.

Perley Brewer   29:42
And I'd certainly like to encourage our listeners to do just that. The survey is a fantastic document. I went through it a number of times and there's all kinds of good information in there talks to how they've collected the information and survey. Obviously, the survey results.
Look, Eugene, thank you very much. Any plans for the fall coming up for steps of life, threads of life?

Eugene  Gutierrez   30:07
Yeah. So coming up in the fall, we have a couple of our family forums. So in September, our Central Family Forum will be taking place and in October, it'll be our Western Family Forum, so.
You know, for anyone who happens to be interested in that, there's certainly more details in at our website at threadslife.ca and otherwise, you know, number of Families Connect virtual sessions. So for for any workers or or family members who'd be interested in.
Online support and participating in some workshops to help aid with coping strategies healing strategies. Again, more information can be found on our website. You can sign up, it's free and it will give you the opportunity to connect with other family members and our membership and pick up some useful skills and.
Tips along the way. So that's it.

Perley Brewer   31:01
You mentioned before our podcast that you had the Atlantic threads of Life family form in Halifax. Any thoughts on that, how that went and any sort of stories or memories to to you take away from that?

Eugene  Gutierrez   31:16
Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I had my opportunity to attend my first Atlantic Family Forum in, in my capacity as the new Executive director at Threads of Life. And I, I, I have to say that, you know, my first time coming to the Atlantic region in, in for that particular event.
Has been incredibly it was incredibly moving. Everyone was so welcoming to hear, to hear the stories from those who have been impacted by workplace tragedies. You know, I I tell people the family form is a crystallization of why we do what we do at threads of.
Life to be able to, you know, in some cases you have people who are coming for the first time and meeting people who were strangers at first, and then by the end of that weekend, they're walking away feeling like I've. I've just, I I've just been in in contact with folks now that I feel like I can call a part of my family that.
These are people who get it. These are people who understand and you know, I'm meeting folks who have suffered a fatality, who, who have suffered a life altering injury or an occupational disease and, you know, they all have their own unique stories. They have their own unique challenges. You, you hear, you hear, you hear the.
You hear the challenges that they've had to deal with between managing their own grief, trying to navigate their quote, UN quote, new normal. And so as far as a particular story, I mean, there's so many.
But you know, I think the fact that everyone who attends that can all relate with that coming from that same place of pain and grief, it's it's powerful. And so for for anyone who's listening that perhaps.
Is thinking about perhaps attending a family forum, specifically the Atlantic region, but hasn't had the opportunity to. I I strongly encourage those individuals to to come out and and check it out that it is a safe space. It's a safe space for you to.
Remove that proverbial mask that you have to wear on the everyday basis to allow yourself to, you know, as much as it might be scary to to to allow yourself to be vulnerable, to open up, to kind of perhaps, maybe take off, take those things that you've been holding close to your chest and just put it in a place that it's, you know, we invite you to do that and.
So it is a very healing event and I know for myself, even though I've I've attended many, many family forums, specifically in central Canada. But I mean it it is. There's a lot of universal similarities every time I go to one.
I always walk away just feeling either. I've I've learned something new or I've I've learned something new about my own grief. 'cause I you know, I lost my dad to workplace fatality and I walk away thinking, wow, my my extended family has, you know, I've got more more friends.
That I can add that I can lean on for support. And so yeah, it was a very special experience and I I certainly look forward to coming back to the Atlantic Family Forum next year.

Perley Brewer   34:24
Well, look here. Excuse me. Look, Eugene, thank you very much for appearing on our podcast today. We certainly appreciate you taking the time. I know you're very busy and to our listeners, keep supporting threads of life, their family forms, steps for life, all the different initiatives that they have on the go.
Terrific initiatives for helping to support those who've been injured or killed. The families of those on the job. Thank you, Regine. I look forward to talking to you again sometime.

Eugene  Gutierrez   34:55
Very good. Thank you, pearly. Thank you for having me.

Perley Brewer   34:57
Take care.