WorkSafeNB Performance Refund - Tim Petersen, President & CEO

For the first time in NB history, WorkSafeNB has provided a performance refund to eligible employers due to a surplus in their Accident Fund.  Tune in to hear Tim Petersen, President & CEO discuss how this has been made possible.

Transcript

 Perley Brewer (Guest)   0:12
 Welcome to today's podcast.
 My name is Pearlie Brewer and I will be your host.
 Today's podcast gifts is Tim Peterson, president and CEO of Work Safe NB.
 Welcome Tim.
 Glad to have you on the broadcast.
Petersen, Tim   0:25
 Apparently appreciate the appreciate the invitation and look forward to sharing more about the story of performance refunds at work.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   0:29
 Yeah.
Petersen, Tim   0:35
 Safe New Brunswick.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   0:37
 Yeah, this past December work safe NB gave out $180 million in performance refunds.
 Certainly have rarity, to say the least.
 Him what would like today, I guess from you during our Podcast is is to provide some context as to how this came about and and talk about some of your plans going ahead as well.
 So I I assume it's pretty safe to say that this is the first time this has ever happened in the history of work safe.
Petersen, Tim   1:03
 Yep.
 Perley, you're right about that.
 This is the first time that we've ever issued performance refunds and the magnitude of the refunds.
 As you know, what at $180.6 million is, this is quite significant and think provides a boost to employers and and to the New Brunswick economy at a time when it's when it's desperately needed.
 I would add that the concept of her performance.
 Uh, refund, I think certainly would be something that would have been incomprehensible even just a few years ago.
 So it definitely a any historic event and and I know you you you mentioned that Worksafe was able to to to give out $180 million in performance refunds.
 I would just say and this will be more to come throughout our discussion here this morning, but it's more about workplaces in a province having earned the refund.
 And I just looked forward to providing some more context to what I mean by that.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   2:15
 So from a point of view of dollars that actually companies receive back, I I assume obviously it varies a lot depending on the size of the company and so on.
 But what sort of range would it?
 Would it have been I I assume for a larger companies it was a very significant amount?
Petersen, Tim   2:32
 Yeah, for sure.
 So I do have some numbers in there in terms of the magnitude.
 So there were 289 companies that received a refund greater than $100,000, greater than $100,000, and there were double digit count numbers that received in excess of $1,000,000 in refunds.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   2:49
 Wow.
Petersen, Tim   2:59
 And then if you if you look at some, you know, uh, I guess a little lesser magnitude, but still quite significant.
 Up to over 2000, employers received between 10,000 and $100,000 and more than 4400 employers received between 2500 and 10,000.
 So the magnitude of the dollars that we're talking about, uh, certainly in total, but even on an individual employer basis are quite are quite a quite astounding really.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   3:36
 Yeah.
 When you look at the amount of money that you gave back, I would think that a lot of employers during pretty tough economic times must have can, can you hear me now, Tim?
Petersen, Tim   3:44
 Did I lose you guys?
 Hello.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   3:55
 Yeah.
 Can you hear me, Tim?
 At all.
Marc Daigle   4:03
 I can hear everybody fine.
Bill Walker   4:05
 Yep, I can see and hear.
Petersen, Tim   4:06
 Hello.
Bill Walker   4:06
 You all hear you too, but I think we've lost, Tim.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   4:07
 Tim.
Bill Walker   4:08
 So we'll see if we can get him logged back on here now.
 Yeah, Mark, let's leave the recording going and it'll be easier to edit that out.
Marc Daigle   4:16
 Yep.
Bill Walker   4:19
 So we'll see if we can get it back on here again.
Petersen, Tim   4:31
 Can you hear me now?
Bill Walker   4:33
 Yeah, we we can hear you.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   4:33
 Yes, I can.
 Can you can can you?
Bill Walker   4:35
 We can't.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   4:35
 Can you hear?
 Can you hear me, Bill or Tim?
Petersen, Tim   4:38
 Yeah, I can hear you.
 But I lost you for a little bit.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   4:42
 OK, so let's pick it up here then, and if you have any further problems, let me know.
 So, Tim, when you look at the amount of money that that you just talked about, that must have been very well received.
 You know, during pretty tough economic times here in the province and you know Company into the year you know to get some good news as always more than welcome.
 I'm why don't you get into a little bit of the background as to how this came about?
Petersen, Tim   5:09
 Yeah, certainly happy to do that early.
 So we've, I mean the the performance refunds really is is at the end of the day it's driven by the fact that we find ourselves in a very favorable financial position.
 So at the end of 2023, we're actually 156 point, 1% funded, so.
 Um.
 And then and that's been a significant improvement if you just go back to as recently as 2018, we were only 85% funded.
 Now there there reasons for for achieving that thought increase significant increase in our financial position really on the underlying things that drive that are accident costs as you would expect.
 So the number of accidents occurring and the severity of those accidents is one key driver and the other is I'm our investment portfolio.
 So we collect money from employers every year to cover the costs of the that year's accidents.
 And because we don't, we're not paying all that money out in that year.
 We invest it so and we we have a portfolio that is expected to return just over 6% annually and it's been outperforming the expectation over the past few years and it's on yours quite significant like.
 So when the troop key drivers in your system are working in the right direction, so a better investment returns than expected and lower injury costs than expected, then you would expect that your financial position is going to improve and in some cases improve quite significantly.
 So I would take this opportunity and I will take more opportunities, but to say kudos to two New Brunswick workplaces for that reduction in severe injury frequency.
 And I mean those two factors are really what is driving the financial position and and the ability for us to issue a performance refund.
 So when I talk about when I talk about funding levels, you know our board has set a target funding level range which is between 115 and 125% funded.
 So when we get above that funding range, right, we're at 156% and the upper end of the board's range is 125.
 We have had measures in place to kind of draw that funding down back towards the target and historically, Perley, what we've done is we've done that through the assessment rate.
 So you'll see in sense 2018 the rates come down from 265 to to $1.10 actually for for 2025.
 But the challenge that we had, uh, is that at 156% funded, it's really not possible to make any meaningful drawdown through every day in the assessment rate, right?
 A penny on the rate is about um, about one point, three $1.4 million, and we're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars here.
 So we knew that.
 Um, given our are very high funding level.
 We were gonna have to consider alternatives to a reduction in the assessment rate.
 So we started that discussion last year with the board and we've had that discussion throughout throughout the year, last year ultimately.
 I'm kind of arriving at a conclusion on a new policy at the September board meeting and and when we were considering different alternatives.
 We sat at the table and we asked ourselves a very simple question.
 How did we get here?
 How did we come to be 156% funded and reflected on all those things I just talked about?
 Um, better than expected performance with investment wise and and injury and severe injury.
 Why so?
 Uh, So what dawned on us is that we got to a route because of better than expected performance.
 And that's really when we started thinking about the notion of performance refunds and if the workplace is out there, have exceeded expectations, then why not give consideration to recognizing those efforts with a refund of the premiums that they paid?
 And uh, that's really how we arrived at at the notion of performance refunds.
 We had a great, great series of discussions at the board level and and I commend the board because as I said just a few years ago, I think the notion of performance refunds would have been incomprehensible.
 And now it's it represents really fundamental and philosophical change in the way that we do business.
 And in addition to kudos through all the workplaces out there, I wanna I wanna do send the same the way of of my board of directors because we can honestly say I've been.
 I've been around work safe for a long time, just celebrated my 30 years at work.
 Safe New Brunswick and very confident in saying we have this strongest Board here now that we've ever had and and that's a big part of how we got into this kind of fundamental and philosophical and and historic change with respect to performance refunds.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   11:16
 So from the point of view of performance redundant, did you issue that during the fiscal year or at the end?
Petersen, Tim   11:24
 The performance refunds were issued at the end of the year.
 So what?
Perley Brewer (Guest)   11:28
 OK.
Petersen, Tim   11:29
 Yeah, just to give you a little bit of maybe context in terms of how the the rate setting process works.
 So we set, we go to the board and engage in a discussion.
 Usually at the end of September, there's a board meeting at the end of September and that's typically when the board will set the assessment rate for the following year, UM and and in addition to that, uh may give consideration to like looking at the policy changes and we'd actually done an asset liability study last year that gave rise to consideration of different funding policies.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   11:50
 OK.
Petersen, Tim   12:09
 And so it was through those discussions that the board actually arrived at a new funding policy and effectively what it says is at that time when we go to set rates, we'll consider what our funding level is and if the funding level is above 140%, then the board may give consideration to issuing performance refunds.
 So all of those discussions kind of came to a head at the September board meeting and that's when the board made the decision to UM to refund the the entirety of the excess above 140%.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   12:38
 The.
Petersen, Tim   12:49
 And that's how that's.
 That's where the $180 million came from.
 Dollars came from.
 That's the difference between effectively the the dollar difference between 140% and 156 percent is the $180 million.
 And 56 percent is the $180 million.
 And $80 million.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   13:04
 OK.
Petersen, Tim   13:04
 And then once we establish that and the board approves that, uh, what we did was simply we we allocated it to employers based on their like proportion of premiums paid in the previous year.
 So we looked at what, how much did you pay us in 2023?
 What did that represent as a as a percentage of the overall premiums we collected and that's how we calculate it.
 What you would get back?
 So just for, yeah, just for ease of illustration.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   13:35
 OK.
Petersen, Tim   13:37
 Like if if what you paid us in 2023 represented 10% of overall premiums, you would've gotten back 10% of the 180 million.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   13:49
 OK, now how old will this affect your future assessment rates for 2025 and potential for any refund in that year?
Petersen, Tim   14:03
 Yeah.
 So I'm I'm really proud of the fact that in addition to the performance refunds, we're actually announced a further rate reduction for 2025.
 So, um, last year we were, you know, at at $1.18.
 This year we get right announced the rate of $1.10, the lowest rate in the history of Worksafe New Brunswick.
 And I I I might add to that, that last year we also, as you know, we're able to improve benefits for workers, but to to to answer your question, um, the fact that we issued this performance refund, it won't have any impact in terms of future assessment rates because it it only triggers above 140%.
 And so we're still well above the board's target range.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   14:51
 OK.
Petersen, Tim   14:54
 So there's no expectation that the issuance of the $180 million will have an an adverse effect on future assessment rate.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   15:04
 So the reaction to the refund, as we mentioned a few minutes ago, obviously anyone that gets money back as you mentioned certainly gonna be happy about it.
 Um, you've asked for feedback from the employer on how they spent the refund.
 I have you received any feedback or what overall have you received for feedback?
Petersen, Tim   15:23
 Yeah, I do.
 I have received feedback and just back to the notion of the reaction.
 I would say that it was like the there was a wide range of emotions, mostly surprise.
 Uh.
 And excitement and appreciation, some disbelief though, and I can even say that, you know, when we we contacted employers, there was even a sometimes some suspicion that they were this was somehow a part of of of a hoax.
 Right that there there was just that level of disbelief that the that this could actually be be happening.
 And as you mentioned, just like appreciation because it comes at a time when when many businesses, when many businesses are struggling.
 So and and I if I might just I've got a couple of quick just little stories that kind of illustrate some of those emotions, so.
 This, you know, performance, refunds and and issuing them out.
 All kind of coincided with the postal disruption.
 So we were challenged with A in fact, how are we gonna distribute checks back to employers anyway?
Perley Brewer (Guest)   16:39
 Well.
Petersen, Tim   16:46
 Long story short, our friends at service New Brunswick very graciously offered to help us out and part of the solution was we set up distribution centres at SSNB locations throughout the province and very appreciative of the fact that our colleagues there offered to help us out in that fashion.
 So have so.
 Then we did that and it had occasion to visit one of those distribution centres and actually witness employers coming in and picking up their checks.
 And I can tell you I saw first hand on, you know, this surprise and just the gratitude that employers were showing the the other, the other little story you have is.
 Yeah.
 We just kind of illustrates that.
 I don't think employers really fully appreciate it.
 The magnitude of what was about to happen, even if they understood performance refunds, I don't think they understood just how big this was.
 I was at in a conversation with an employer at an event, uh, after the refunds had been announced, but before they went out and he was very appreciative.
 And I said, oh, do you have any?
 Do you have some sense of how much your performance refund will be said?
 No, I don't really.
 I said, well, you know how much you paid in premiums in 2023.
 And he said, yeah, I think we paid about $150,000.
 I said while you're performance refund will be about that plus 10% and he was just blown away by it, couldn't believe that the magnitude but the best part of that story is I I I followed up afterwards.
 Uh, because of that conversation, just to confirm, in fact, that that company was gonna get back $150,000.
 Well, what I found out is that you're actually getting back over $1,000,000.
 So the individual I was talking to didn't, didn't, didn't really understand how much they had paid in um, and then they in fact got a check for over $1,000,000.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   18:44
 Well.
Petersen, Tim   18:53
 So just but as he said, kind of illustrate to the sort of surprise and appreciation and then and then the feedback that I got, uh, you know, uh, about what?
 Are employers doing with these performance refunds and I can tell you while use one example, I'll use Worksafe New Brunswick as an example where an assessed employer, so we ourselves are getting back a performance refund.
 And what we're doing is we are soliciting ideas for investments in health and safety initiatives from our staff and we're actually gonna kind of do a little bit of a a Dragons den Worksafe, New Brunswick style and have our employees come in and pitch ideas for what they think would be meaningful investments in health and safety and.
 And we're gonna commit funds to one or more of those initiatives.
 Some of the things I've heard from other employers, though, are that, uh, many doing the same, reinvesting the money in health and safety.
 But I've also actually had a couple of examples where employers are actually giving a portion of the funds back directly to employees to recognize and reward their.
 There are, um, you know, commitment to a healthy and safe workplace, so really fantastic stories coming out of this.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   20:26
 Now I know you're still putting your numbers together for 20/24 in the indication at this point is to how they look from the point of view of especially active rate.
Petersen, Tim   20:38
 Yeah.
 So I I expect that our financial, our results are gonna be very positive again in 2024.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   20:43
 Yeah.
Petersen, Tim   20:46
 We're very early on.
 We have our auditors haven't even knocked at the door yet, so it's it's way too early to, you know, establish exactly what those numbers would be.
 I'm, but I'm very confident that that we will be recording back out on uh, a positive results and every positive financial position at the end of 2024 and and and of course poorly that'll feed into.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   21:13
 So.
Petersen, Tim   21:17
 That'll feed feed into the rate setting discussions that we'll have with the board in September.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   21:26
 So let's get into a little more detail.
 What changes have you as an organization made in in both the prevention and and the rehabilitation compensation side to the House that really enabled you to see the decline in accident rates in the province?
Petersen, Tim   21:42
 Yeah, I.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   21:42
 Picture a lot of folks.
 That kind of wondering what?
 What's practice about it doesn't just happen by magic.
Petersen, Tim   21:47
 Yeah, I would say like, what changes haven't we made?
 We've made a lot.
 I've I've kind of, I thought, well, what are the?
 There's a long list far too long to get into detail on all of them, certainly.
 In a short amount of time, but there were a few things that I'd like to that I did wanna highlight, both from a prevention and from a, you know, rehabilitation and return to work perspective because both are both are exceptionally important on the prevention side, Perley, I would say.
 Really.
 What the change?
 The key change has been a focus on being a partner in production and you know we as you know, we.
 Are responsible for the, you know, enforcement of the occupational health and safety.
 I can act and regulations and we have a number of health and safety officers.
 Um that have that responsibility.
 Um but, but and and when we need to use those tools, we use them.
 But but we start off from the perspective of a partner in prevention and a very collaborative approach by even to to the point that we have, you know, with when new employers register, we have what we call a handshake meeting with the employer and we'll have our health and safety people go in and just say, hey, introduce themselves and work safe.
 And Brunswick, when we wanna work with you, we wanna be your partner.
 We have lots of knowledge that can help you write create a culture of health and safety in your workplace and and and if you do that, we all wait.
 So I think that that is probably the biggest thing from a prevention standpoint.
 The other thing though, that we're doing um and and this is maturing, I would say it it matures, you know every uh, you know even though on a month by month.
 Basis on a week by week basis.
 Certainly annually is that we're really focused on more targeted prevention activities and where we are, we're using predictive analytics more.
 So really, what are those factors that we can identify that are gonna help us?
 Do we have a lot of data?
 How do we best use that data to make sure that we're getting into workplaces before injuries occur?
 So what are what?
 How do we determine what workplaces or what industries are at risk?
 And let's get in and let's get in early and work with them before the injuries occur.
 So those are a couple of examples of fundamental things that we're doing bit differently on the credential side.
 Now you know we don't.
 We do have, uh, we do have injuries occur, there's no doubt about it.
 That continues.
 The trends are going in the right direction, but you know the numbers are still higher than we would like them to be last year.
 I think uh or on average the last few years around 33,400 lost time frames.
 Um, so still still lots of work to be done there.
 What we're doing?
 Uh, I think honey rehab and returned to work site.
 Quite a few different things, but one of the key things that's early intervention and early intervention.
 Both from like trying to get a proper diagnosis and a proper rehab and return to work, plan in place and early intervention to really try to to try and keep employees at work where at all possible and and not just thinking about well can you do the work you were doing before?
 No.
 Can we keep you at work and connected to the workplace through some form of accommodation?
 And what we found is that, you know, workplaces again are willing to work with us.
 Uh to make that happen?
 So what we're seeing is those things are paying off in the form really of.
 Declining claim durations and declining claim durations, but this has a direct impact on costs and financial position and and the other thing is well, the fact of the matter is workplaces are experiencing as a result of all of this and the efforts that they're putting in their experiencing far fewer severe injuries and and and when they do occur, everyone, all of the partners involved, are doing a better job of getting people back to work.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   26:44
 So accident rates in New Brunswick are down the lowest in Canada.
 Certainly a good opportunity here to congratulate work safe NB staff and to the provinces.
 Employers on achieving that, do you get calls from some of your counterparts across Canada saying hey, look Tim, you guys are obviously doing something right here.
 What kinds of things that you know you feel have really worked for you?
 What kinds of advice are you sharing with other jurisdictions?
Petersen, Tim   27:13
 Yep.
 So we do, I do get those questions.
 Uh, I mean, you know, we meet regularly with our our part with our counterparts across the country to share share many different things.
 What's going right?
 What are?
 What are challenges?
 And and yeah, when I I reflect when they asked me, I reflect on some of the things that I just reflected on like what are some of these things that we're doing that we're doing differently and and at the end of the day, Perley, I would just say like our commitment, you know, we have a commitment to UM, but really there being in the right place at the right time with the right service and doing and and doing so in a very collaborative fashion.
 So that to me is that to me is the driving force, and that's the conversation I have when my counterparts asked me, well, what we're doing differently.
 And the other thing is I know we we you.
 We all want to put COVID behind us.
 I from many different perspectives, but there were a few.
 There were a few positive things that came that came out of COVID, and one of them was like a renewed focus on health and safety.
 And I think that we're still experiencing that, that right, that workplaces have have taken that renewed focus and they've maintained it.
 So.
 So I'm really, really pleased about about that.
 But then what?
 You know, when I talk to my counterparts, I do talk a lot about what we're doing in our claims division with early intervention and what a great job that teams are doing at at returning people to work and in many cases, keeping people at work through accommodation where in the past that's simply wouldn't have happened.
 And and each day that goes by, when you have a disconnection from work, the likelihood of getting back to work few minutes is a little bit so maintaining it.
 What connection with the workplace?
 It's critical and our folks are doing a great job of that.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   29:28
 So, Jim, are there any nights where you lay awake a little bit and worry and ask yourself, look, we we've achieved such a such a good level?
 No, we wanted to go lower, but we really have achieved such a good level and it's low and we seem to be keeping it there.
 How can we continue to keep it there?
 What you must have moments where you say, well, Gee, you know, we need to be doing whatever to to keep it there.
Petersen, Tim   29:54
 Yeah, I would say like if you are when when you say what keeps you up at night.
 We still have, we still have too many people getting killed on the job.
 That's why it keeps me up at then that, you know, we are.
 We've been consistently in double digit fatalities in New Brunswick.
 Uh, you know, some years we've seen improvement and then some years we've taken a step back.
 But until we get to a point of having no fatalities in the province, I can tell you that that will be.
 That would be something that definitely keeps me up because the impact is, uh, the impact is really incomprehensible for those of us who haven't have been lucky enough, not experienced it on a personal level.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   30:53
 Where do you see the biggest pressure points coming in the next year to three years even?
 Do you see any points that you're sort of, old boy?
 We're gonna have to watch this or this could derail us.
 Uh, for example, occupational health issues.
Petersen, Tim   31:05
 100 hundred hundred 100% I don't wanna.
 I I would not say derail.
 I wouldn't wanna scare anyone by saying the derail us because we recognize we recognize we've identified the challenge, the biggest one, Perley, in my opinion, unquestionably this psychological injuries we're seeing.
 A uh decreases in many most other injury types, but we're seeing an increase in psychological injuries and we're seeing other jurisdictions are actually expanding coverage of psychological injuries through their legislation, something that we're likely to be discussing in New Brunswick at some point.
 Uh, but that really is to me, that's going to be the challenge.
 Psychological injuries are very, uh, the very challenging.
 Um, the good news is, and this makes this may seem a little I like to be a little bit of a contradictory statement, but but there is some good news and the fact that we're seeing increased reporting of psychological injuries and the good news is that it's becoming and I know this like from being directly engaged with several groups including firefighters.
 Uh, it's becoming acceptable.
 Not just acceptable, but it's becoming an expectation that people talk about psychological injury, whereas in the past people may share shy away from talking about it and and the firefighters are a great example of that because there are, there are proud tough group of individuals and if you go back, I'm gonna say as recently as a decade ago, I'm sure firefighters who are you know, many of whom experience psychological injury would not be comfortable talking about it.
 In fact, they'd be entirely uncomfortable talking about it now.
 They're creating here support groups.
 To to engage and discussions about it and encourage discussions about it.
 So it is, um, it is a challenge.
 But the good news is though, people are willing to talk about it and and the courage to talk about it means that we can identify a treatment program and support mechanisms early early on, back to that early intervention and it's it's no early intervention is.
 Extremely important in the case of psychological insurance, so it's a challenge.
 It's a pressure point, but we've identified it and we're developing a strategy and we're we, we we learn also as other jurisdictions learn from us, we learn from them and and I would just say I would just finish by saying it's probably the biggest challenge for every jurisdiction across the country.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   34:16
 How do you go about demand edge from a workers compensation point of view?
 Said topic that topic.
Petersen, Tim   34:24
 Psycho.
 What are Paul, injuries?
 While we've 11 very innovative thing that we've done here in New Brunswick is we've we've introduced.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   34:25
 Yeah.
Petersen, Tim   34:33
 What what's referred to as the six seed program, the six seed program is.
 Specific to psychological injuries and it's a multi week, I think it's a six week program and what we've done here and there there really kind of unique part of it is as soon as we get a report of psychological injury we don't even wait for a decision to be made on the claim.
 We refer the client to the succeed program immediately, and um, our expectation and experience is that you know the benefit of getting people into the program early part seeds.
 Any posts that may be associated with, like subsequently give you the United made a decision to deny a claim, but the worker is still received treat you know support through this succeed program.
 Um, the cost of that are are are minimal in comparison to the games that we get by having people in that program early.
 And that's something that's unique that's unique to New Brunswick and that would be another thing I didn't mention it when you say like well when you're counterparts ask you what you're doing differently, what do you talk about the succeed program is definitely something I'm talking about.
Perley Brewer (Guest)   35:58
 Now, are there any other jurisdictions in Canada that already accepts like theological claims?
Petersen, Tim   36:05
 Uh OHS?
 Yes, most all all, all jurisdictions except some form of psychological claims.
 So in New Brunswick, it's psychological injuries like arising out of a traumatic like.
 It's for us.
 It's defined as an acute reaction to a traumatic event, so it's, you know, kind of, uh, if I refer back to, like, firefighters.

Perley Brewer (Guest)   36:26
 OK.

Petersen, Tim   36:32
 So firefighters attending at the scene of a fire while they may, we witnessed to some pretty horrific things and that could write that could cause some form of psychological injury.

Perley Brewer (Guest)   36:33
 Hmm.

Petersen, Tim   36:45
 That would be the type of thing that we cover here in New Brunswick that would be covered in, I believe, pretty much every other jurisdiction as well.
 Now there are some other jurisdictions that go beyond that and they talk about more about.
 I'm not just an acute reaction, but like a gradual buildup on of things that create some form of psychological injury.
 So it's not just witnessing or being party to a single event, it's more about things you know building up overtime.
 So there are few.
 There are a few jurisdictions that uh cover those things in varying degrees, like the scope of coverage is a little bit different in in every jurisdiction, but it's an it's an ongoing conversation here that works.
 Safe New Brunswick.
 Not just about what are we gonna do to support people who have, you know, claims of forks Safety, Brunswick.
 But we're gonna look at, uh, the scope of coverage in other jurisdictions and consider whether or not are there's there's a need for for change here in New Brunswick from a legislative perspective.

Perley Brewer (Guest)   38:00
 So at some point, Tim would certainly like to have someone on our podcast to to talk about your six weeks ecological program.

Petersen, Tim   38:07
 Oh yes, for sure there are.
 There are several people who would be very, very eager to to share more about that program.

Perley Brewer (Guest)   38:17
 It's certainly a hot topic.
 Pretty much every Conference you go to nowadays pretty much every time you go on the the Internet or LinkedIn, whatever that certainly be an identified as a topic look to him.
 I I know your time is valuable, but while we have you here one last question.
 2025 I know you have guys have a lot on the go in 2025.
 Use this opportunity.
 Anything you'd like to promote?

Petersen, Tim   38:43
 There are a few things actually that I'd like to promote, so I mentioned earlier in 2024, we were able to achieve legislative change, improving benefits for workers.
 So that was kind of that was phase one.
 So that was that was the loss of earnings increasing from 85 to 90% and and the increase in the maximum annual insurable earnings that was kind of part one of a suite of benefit improvement change that.
 So I'm looking forward to 2025 uh in in furthering phase two of those benefit improvements and hoping that I'm hoping that I will be invited to Fredericton to discuss those and advance those changes in in the first half of 2025.
 Um, we're continuing to work on.
 We've done a large consultation with respect to firefighter coverage on most specifically.
 Presumptive coverage for cancer.
 So that's an ongoing dialogue with the board that will that that will look to get some conclusion and recommendations around that in 2025.
 We're working on Ohm, a long term strategy for psychological injuries.
 So I talked about, you know, the succeed program and things we are doing to support workers who suffer such injuries.
 But we're also looking at, you know, that's kind of after the injuries occurred.
 We're also looking, though at a strategy around preventing psychological injuries and what can we do to help workplaces avoid having people in situations where these type of injuries might occur.
 Um, we're also looking from again from a from a I guess prevention and awareness perspective as strategy for newcomers to the province, right.
 So, uh, we know that.
 Uh, a bit?
 Even basic understanding of occupational health and safety would be extremely valuable for for folks.
 So what kind of strategy to, uh, make that kind of, you know, make sense and need adjustable for folks who are maybe newcomers to the province and maybe newcomers to the to the entire concept of health and safety in the workplace?
 Um.
 And then I guess the other thing I would say from my prevention perspective is, uh, we're looking at potentially uh partnering with folks for maybe new Safety associations in the province.
 So currently we have a dedicated safety associations for for the construction industry, for forestry and for continuing care.
 Uh, but there are other industries in the province that could potentially benefit from Safety association, so that'll be those will be very interesting conversations that that I look forward to.
 And yeah, the final thing I would mention is we're always trying to improve services that we offer to like to our clients, to the employers and workers of the Providence and and part of offering really good, effective and efficient Services having the right systems in place to enable that.
 And we're doing a complete overhaul of all of our systems here at work, safe and in 2025.
 I look forward to like we're implementing a new finance and HR system, but we're also going to be in the market for a new claims and employer system and that that's gonna be those tools.
 Uh will be reflective and and enable a service that people would expect in 2025.
 So I'm looking forward to really looking forward to seeing, to seeing that evolve and the last thing I would say is just respect to performance refunds.
 I know folks listening to the podcast.
 Are there?
 There's a lot.
 You you hear a lot of information here.
 There's a lot to digest.
 I would say just let you know that we have an FAQ available on specifically on performance refunds on our website.
 So on in addition to what you've heard on the podcast today, there may be many other questions that you have that you have.
 And I'm certain that a majority of them would be addressed in that FAQ.
 So I just point you in in that direction and and as always, Perley just appreciate the opportunity to come.
 Come on your Podcast and be given a form to kind of talk about some of the interesting things happening that work safe New Brunswick.
 Appreciate it very much.

Perley Brewer (Guest)   43:51
 The last well, I guess the last quick question, the last few days with all the discussion with the US, the new US President, Donald Trump, an idea that's certainly floated the last few days is for the problems is to do what they can to try and break down any interprovincial barriers to trade between all the different provinces.
 And do you sense any discussion will come up on health and safety relative to any complications that might have or any difficulty relative to health and safety or not?

Petersen, Tim   44:26
 Well, I would say from an, you know from a health and safety perspective, we are continually involved in discussions with their counter parts.
 So we're part of national groups that talk about, um, a lot about emerging issues and that would be one of them, certainly.
 So we are, you know we are.
 Here at work safe, I'd like to to, you know, talk to the team about one work safe New Brunswick.
 We're all in this together and and and in it for, you know, we have a unified vision, but it's really like one Canada from that perspective and we're we're always involved in those discussions.
 So I yeah, I would say folks take comfort in the fact that that we're actively engaged in those discussions and we're actively engaged from a health and safety requirement perspective in removing barriers to doing business across across Canadian jurisdictions.
 So I would say that you know those conversations.
 Uh, well, just strengthen in light of the circumstances we find ourselves in.

Perley Brewer (Guest)   45:36
 Well, look damn.
 Thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us.
 We certainly appreciate it and to our listeners out there.
 Stay safe.
 We will see you next week.